Laika interviews Dannie-Lu Carr

Dannie-Lu Carr is a senior training consultant and executive coach who specializes in women’s leadership, personal impact and creativity in Business. She is the founder of Flaming Leadership, the arm of her organization which specializes in women’s leadership and gender parity, and the founder of Creative Wavelengths, a linguistic and diagnostic tool for Creativity and Innovation in relation to Organizational Behavior. In addition, Dannie is a published author, speaker, acting coach, singer/songwriter, actor and an award-winning theater director. For fun and sanity, she is a keen Crossfitter and competitive amateur Strongwoman.

People managing and working in organizations are looking to find new ways of working and communicating - and we here at Laika are too. Finding the right words is not easy, especially in difficult or stressful situations. Words can too easily be unintentionally harmful or judgemental.

The concept of Non-violent communication (NVC), by Marshall B. Rosenberg, gives us the necessary skills to relate to each other and our personal needs in a more collaborative way. It helps to handle difficult conversations, avoid possible conflicts and misunderstandings, but also build team empathy and cohesion. Therefore, we asked consultant Dannie-Lu Carr for advice on creating a space for the whole pack to learn, implement and master the skills of NVC. The NVC clinics have become a monthly ritual within our work routine. Although it is a challenge each time to open up, we truly believe that NVC is crucial to growing integrity and the flat hierarchy policy that is so important to us. Besides the personal growth for every single space dog, NVC also helps us in our professional development, as it is just as essential to consulting as it is to internal communication.

We hope this interview inspires you and gives you the strength to open up to people on how you feel and what you need!

Lisa: Hey Dannie, so nice to talk to you again. It's been some time since we last pestered you with our questions. Can you tell us what’s been going on for you?

Dannie: Hi! Other than Christmas and New Years of course, I worked a lot more on the topic of Women Leadership to grow my business, Flaming Leadership, in 2021. Besides that, I had some great communication and personal workshops, like the ones with you guys. On top of that, I am recording a new album - actually going to the studio after our interview (laughs). I just love the balance between my work with people and the creative stuff - that is my sanity!

Annalena: Wow, that sounds cool! You have to show us your new songs. Over the last months, you have also been the host for our Non-Violent Communication clinics. If one hears the name of the program, the image might arise that we just practice talking to each other without punching each other. This is, of course, not the case (laughs). Could you maybe sum up what NVC really means?

Dannie: The reactions you mentioned show how little self awareness there is, on how we, as human beings, communicate. But this is so important: We all have egos and pain points, and that's totally fine! But if we don’t know them, they tend to hijack us and dominate the way we communicate with each other. Non-Violent Communication helps to understand when we are being violent with words without even knowing or intending to do so. There is a good analogy: Saying something with a finger point is like using a weapon.

I personally love working on NVC because there is so much to undo from what we learned of how to communicate. To be honest, a lot of people, also in public, are not good at it. Of course, they aren’t hurting someone physically, but mentally or emotionally. And I think that is way worse because you need longer to heal from this.

Lisa: Some people might wonder why facing such difficult topics in front of colleagues is necessary, and might struggle with this. Could you tell us how such workshops usually go, what people learn, and what effects they have on the participants?

Dannie: Well, we all are guarded around our feelings and educated that there is a right and a wrong. This combination makes it even more difficult to look at the individual needs. Therefore, I am so impressed by you guys that you started the NVC clinics - a very big project.

There is a lot of stuff that causes stress - e.g. with you at Laika, you all have deadlines and multiple clients to work on, but instead of getting stressed, you learn to have an honest conversation without judgement on what has happened and how you as a team can fix it. Showing vulnerability is always scary, I mean, look at Brené Brown’s TED talk. Her work is amazing, but after her talks she had a breakdown! Opening up is always a brave thing to do, but once you trust the process, you really see the benefits

Annalena: In preparation for this interview, we also went through some literature. Common outcomes we found were that people who are able to apply NVC are more empathetic, better in collective leadership, and less stressed. This is probably the ideal state for everyone. How does this magic work?

Dannie: It is about understanding, in brief, that everyone has needs - here you can go back to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Otherwise, you can’t understand other people's actions and make the wrong interpretation. You may think that someone is selfish, but in truth he or she just requires recognition. So before you interpret someone's behavior or communication, look at what has actually happened. Then guess or ask the person directly for their needs. By doing that, you can also express your own needs.

Lisa: Do you see progress within Laika since we started our journey with you? What are the things we already do well, and on what topics do you still want to work with us on?

Dannie: Yeah, I have! Your courage has grown a lot within our workshops. You can see it in the things you share with each other. There have definitely been some moments of vulnerability. And all this leads to more cohesion and offers to help. The more cohesive you get, the more courage you show and the more you start to blossom - that is what I’ve noticed at Laika!

The topics really depend on the things you want to address. The thing I am bringing in, is the method of the Forum theatre by Augusto Boal. By rehearsing a conversation, you can really experience it with all the feelings and emotions and not just mentally, in your head.

Annalena: That’s great to hear. All of what we’ve talked about was mainly focused on the working context, but NVC can surely be beneficial in private life too. Could you share some of your experiences there?

Dannie: My partner was the one bringing NVC up to me. So we use it a lot to find out what is triggering at some points or to see why the other is upset. Understanding our individual needs helps our relationship as well. Besides that, NVC also nourishes my friendships. Even if you have known each other for decades, there is also always something that you don’t understand fully. For me, being curious is fundamental to building trust. We are trained to find solutions as fast as possible, and sometimes that is totally right, but in a personal interaction that is not helpful.

Lisa: No matter in which context NVC is applied, it is highly connected to working on oneself, and it is not easy admitting your own mistakes or opening up. We experienced ourselves that addressing a difficult topic in the clinics or in our daily work is still hard. Are there three go-to tips you can give for people who want to try out NVC?

Dannie: So my first tip is to be careful and aware of the assumptions and interpretations you make of other people's behavior. There is a lot going on that you don’t know about and has nothing to do with you. Second: Don’t rush but make time and space for the conversation. And along with that, say if something is not easy for you - opening up can evoke a lot of empathy and patience in other people. I am giving more than three tips here (laughs), but lastly breathe and try to be as succinct as you can be.

Annalena: Can you recommend some must-reads for someone who wants to dive deeper into the topic of NVC?

Dannie: There is so much out there! ‘Dare to Lead’ by Brené Brown is brilliant. And, of course, ‘Nonviolent Communication’ by Marshall B. Rosenberg. His book is the bible (laughs). Nancy Kline’s work ’Time to Think’ links very well to NVC. ’Never Split the Difference’ by Chris Voss gives very interesting insights into how the human brain works. And then you have the classic book ’The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People’ by Stephen R Covey. An oldie but goldie that everyone should have on their bookshelf.

Lisa & Annalena: Thank you so much, Dannie!

Saying something with finger point is like a weapon: An interview with Dannie-Lu Carr

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